And they have “naughty lists.”

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42 Responses to And they have “naughty lists.”

  1. tom says:

    I don’t know if bin laden can be called a symbol of islam, i mean a symbol of islamic fundamentalism yes, but all of islam?

  2. kerry says:

    I’m pretty sure that Santa isn’t the symbol of any popular religion, unless you make consumerism a religion

  3. DomPrez says:

    replace the ever-contraversial ‘religion’ bubble with “may or may not have regular bowel movements”…u cant argue with that can you, critics?!!

  4. Ambuj Saxena says:

    I think you can also add “has a beard” to the diagram.

  5. Nathan West says:

    -or-
    Obi-wan Kenobi

  6. anon says:

    yeah, this is kinda racist…

  7. Chaz says:

    A symbol needn’t be embraced by, nor indicative of the norm within, any given religion. When the “average American” thinks of Bin Laden, they identify him partially by his media-attributed “Islamic extremist” label. Similarly, Santa has nothing to do with Christianity, but by association with a certain holiday, becomes a symbol attached to it; in fact, I’d say this is particularly spot-on, as both of these examples (Santa and Osama) represent the worst of their preconceived associations — Bin Laden marring the name of Islam, and Santa of Christianity.

  8. Demur Rumed says:

    When I think of Santa, I think of a sister my sister drew of him holding a rifle beside a shot deer with a title discussing his high standing in deer hunting competitions. So for me, both are also tied with the imagery of guns

  9. Andrew says:

    Don’t forget the beards!

  10. steve says:

    chaz, i agree about the symbols…but santa is the american symbol of Christmas, not Christianity.

  11. Briana says:

    Er, Santa does have to do with Christianity… It’s the nickname for Saint Nicholas, who has been widely celebrated by Christians for centuries. Just because non-Christians celebrate him as well, just like they celebrate Christmas in the western world these days, does not take away from the religious meaning.

  12. Manta says:

    Could we add Sarah Palin to this list?

  13. Stripe says:

    I am offering a Reward for the Capture of Osama Bin Laden: Bring him to me, or surrender him to the US Government, and I will give you $10.00. That’s right, Ten Whole Bucks! If we everyone in the US did this, that would be $3 Billion. I’m In.

    And that goes Double for Santa. That old bastard let me down one too many times…
    ‘What do you mean they ran out of “Don’t Break the Ice” games at the NORTH POLE?’

    Anyway, things are a little tight right now, so if you could wait until after payday to make capture, that would be super.

  14. Glenn says:

    Hmmm …
    Has anyone ever seen both of them in a room at the same time?
    I’m just saying …

  15. Bret says:

    @Glenn — I’m afraid you’ve said too much. You must be eliminated.

  16. Sheila says:

    hmmm Manta took my line.

  17. Pingback: An American in Jordan » Blog Archive » And They Both Have “Naughty Lists”

  18. Rafi says:

    I dare you to put this up on a church at Christmas.
    I dare you.
    Wait until Bill O’Reilly finds out.

  19. Kinda says:

    Insulted by your comment on Islam. Do not appreciate.

  20. Dana says:

    As Pogo the Possum once said: “What we need here is a Sanity Clause.”

  21. chris says:

    Why are we so defensive?

    Symbolic does not mean endorsed by a religion. But there’s a surprise, someone making a slightly controversial statement making absolutely no judgement about any involved party is branded a racist.

    I tell you, this world would be better off if we could drop the empty pursuit of the men in the sky.

    If you’re christian and that offends you, forgive me.

  22. PKM says:

    @Stripe: “.. I will give you $10.00. That’s right, Ten Whole Bucks! If we everyone in the US did this, that would be $3 Billion.”

    Well, given that the US has a military expenditure of $700 BILLION per year, you could argue that every man, woman and child already gives more like $2,300 a year. In the 8 years since 2001 we can call that something like $15,000.

    Just saying.

  23. anon says:

    The folks that have said that the religion need not accept the symbol are correct. But, if the religion does not associate itself with the symbol, someone must associate the symbol with the religion, right? Well, my offense to this is that it represents the views of ignorant who associate Bin Ladin with Islam. Why reinforce their views like this? You only contribute to the ignorance.

  24. Stripe says:

    @PKM: They may take $2,300 a year from me; I’m not in a position to say NO to Uncle Sam.
    And there’s no point discussing how that money gets spent…

    But I’ll GIVE you Ten of my own bucks, freely, willingly, happily. (and remember, double for Kringle)

    In aggregate, that could be some serious reward money for the right motivated turncoat extremist to rat out that officially unendorsed symbol of… um, what were those fellas supposed to symbolize again?

  25. Penmonicus says:

    You left off “Has a beard” and “-or- Jesus Christ”.

    Other than that: awesome, as always =]

  26. fishboy says:

    @anon: therefore we must not make any intelligent or subtle jokes as these may be misconstrued by the ignorant or the easily offended? Please. Find the door yourself would you?

  27. anon says:

    it’s neither intelligent nor subtle. that’s the point. it’s ignorant.

  28. fishboy says:

    @anon: Bin Laden *is* associated with Islam. Santa *is* associated with Christianity. Neither are, nor should be, considered as *defining* the religion.

    You leapt at this diagram as being, in the first instance, “racist” (baffling – since no race is mentioned or even implied). Secondly that it “represents the views of the ignorant”, not seeing that it lampoons the views of the ignorant. And lastly you demonstrate that you’re unable to understand the satire and also don’t actually understand what “ignorant” means.

    Do you actually have a coherent point?

  29. chris says:

    Stop moaning about race and religion. We have much better things to do.

  30. anon says:

    Mr. Constable,

    Is associated? That’s not what the diagram says. Is a SYMBOL of, are the words the diagram uses. And if by “defining,” you are suggesting neither should be considered as symbolizing the religion, then I agree.

    Yours,
    Anon.

  31. Anonymous says:

    The anonymous people of the internet would like to disassociate ourselves from this example of us.

  32. fishboy says:

    @anon: if you lack the intestinal fortitude to use your own identity then please do me the courtesy of addressing me as I choose on this site.

    Thank you for agreeing with the “defining” point. I’m in no way saying that Bin Laden should be seen as characterising Islam – I’m merely in favour of using irony and satire to combat ignorance and prejudice.

    But back to our bickering – now you’re just arguing semantics. Not very well at that since a symbol by it’s definition is *associated* with what it symbolises. Again I ask: do you have a coherent point?

  33. peetmaster says:

    come on, everybody. Fun is fun. Offended are only the weak(-minded).
    We could really say nothing if we paid attention to everonye who might be offended.

  34. Offensive and Ignorant says:

    I came here for a light hearted break in the day and was only insulted by this ignorant understanding of Islam. Is Timothy McVeigh the symbol of Americans? Hilter of all Germans? The word symbol here terribly used.

  35. fishboy says:

    @Offensive and Ignorant: brilliant one mate, that’s hilarious. Hang on – you are being funny aren’t you?

    Also: why is everyone upset about the perceived ‘insult’ to Islam and not the insult to Santa?

  36. Pingback: And They Have Beards Too « A Blank Slate

  37. maltz says:

    @fishboy: Actually, I disagree with both. Either take the word symbol out or the word religion. Then no meanings are misconstrued and everybody’s happy.

  38. fishboy says:

    @maltz: But that assumes that keeping people happy should be the goal: I assumed that the idea of these diagrams was, apart from humour, to provoke thought. And possibly debate. In which regard this one has succeeded admirably.

    The bit saying “symbol of popular religion” could be retitled “figurehead of popular movement” (or similar) but to my mind that would be equivocation. Neutering the art because of a potential to offend.

    And, really, if a daily cartoon so offends you then you need to get out more.

  39. Pingback: Neues aus der Blogosphäre (2) « Die blinde Eule

  40. Henryk Wistreich says:

    Would you accept a belated thank you, Jessica?

    It’s curious how the diagram has raised a pretty heated discussion on Islam without, in fact, even mentioning it, or Christianity. Are we so prone to projecting our preconceptions and fobies onto just about anything even remotely susceptible?

  41. Henryk Wistreich says:

    @Manta and Sheila: Would Sara Palin have to grow a beard to qualify?

  42. Erin says:

    So many people here are unwilling to take responsibility for their own ignorance. The cartoon is not racist, but it is inaccurate and uninformed. A joke is a joke, not a stretch.
    @Henryk aka red herring: why do Christianity and Islam need to be mentioned by name? What popular religions could they possibly referring to? Also, the association of Bin Laden with Islam (rather than extremism) has caused numerous deaths, hostility and violence toward people perceived as Muslims. Hilarious.

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