“But it’s not like I, ya know, eat them.”

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69 Responses to “But it’s not like I, ya know, eat them.”

  1. Rob says:

    I see this all the time in Portland. Sheeeeeeesh!!

  2. Craig says:

    The circle on the right is redundant. Animal rights activists have no credibility by definition.

  3. Bob says:

    How is that different from say ‘Womans rights’ ‘Woman’ credibility=null.

  4. Erik says:

    Might be as simple as fake leather.

  5. Oliver X says:

    It bears remembering that the intersection of “ad hominem attack” and “logical counter-argument” is also the empty set.

  6. Mike says:

    Animal rights activists have a small point. Unfortunately they think it’s the only point. I think I need a hamburger.

  7. Maurog says:

    Actually ‘Woman rights’ + ‘Woman’ would be like ‘Animal rights’ + ‘Animal’. And it’s about time animals speak for themselves!

    Say it loud and proud, sea kittens.

  8. yefet says:

    todays indexed is from arrested development. still funny though.

  9. Jason says:


    The fake leather argument is weak. It means that the activist desires to wear the skin of animals, but just don’t have the guts to own up to it. Fake leather on an animal activist, in my opinion, is worse that real leather. Not only are they hypocritical, but they are also cowards.

  10. Lindsay says:

    It’s just so hard to seem militaristic and hardcore without those thumping Docs.

    (All said as a non-activist vegetarian, whose boots are made of wool)

  11. Jeff Frazier says:

    I can see an animal rights activist wearing leather with credibility.

    As long as the label states, “The animals from which this skin was taken died on a free range, from natural causes.”

    If they are OK with Mythbusters using pigs that fit that qualification for experiments, leather should be just fine as well.

    I think I just had a great idea for a business.

  12. t3knomanser says:

    One can argue for animal rights without arguing for rights on par with those of humans. For example, one could argue that all animals have the right to be turned into garments, and that this is the inherent telos of all non-homonids.

    Rights are a collective fiction that help society function. They do not exist a priori, no matter what the Declaration of Independence says.

  13. Bret says:

    …unlike Communion at church. I’m all for Communion but I’ll be danged if I’m wearing shoes made out of Jesus.

  14. Mike says:

    But with shoes made of Jesus, you can walk on water!

  15. That’s the first thing my husb says when he walks away from a strict vege: “he’s got leather shoes on, doesn’t he?”

  16. DSimon says:

    I’m a vegetarian for animal rights reasons, and I can tell you, it’s an enormous pain in the ass finding shoes with no leather components in them at all. Something like 95% of all shoes I come across, even sneakers, have leather tongues (the tongues of the shoes, that is, not leather made from tongues).

    My selection typically comes down to:
    – Canvas shoes, which don’t work in a professional setting and won’t keep rain/slush out.
    – Incredibly cheap shoes which fall apart after a couple months.
    – 100% fake leather shoes, which are harder to find than you’d expect. Many shoes are partially fake and partially real leather, or have no label indicating whether or not they have any leather components.

    And don’t even get me started on belts.

  17. Carlos says:

    Oi vey. The whole world doesn’t have to be everyone’s soap box.

    •How in the world is wearing fake leather cowardly? Is wearing real leather brave? That’s ridiculous.
    •I hate it when people use throwaway lines purely to bother other people. “I think I need a hamburger.” Seriously?
    •Don’t talk about telos and a priori without explaining them to the layman. I’m a phil Ph.D. and even I find that pretentious.

    Frankly, I don’t see why there’s such a backlash against animal rights activists (or activists in general). Where is the love?

  18. Chaz says:

    I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals — I’m a vegetarian because I freakin’ *hate* plants.

    (Yes, I’m actually a vegetarian. Yes, I’d like to see most PETA members strung up or run through with pikes)

  19. Rasputin says:

    Animal rights activists are tasty, imo, you should eat more of them.

  20. DannyDeranged says:

    I think the best comparison here is women’s rights.

    Animal rights activists get all worked up about people eating animals, but those people don’t care, though the animals damn well do.

    Women’s rights activists get all worked up over not being treated equally, but the moment you threaten to stop eating them, they shut up quicker than you can choke a kitten.

    Spoken by an Anti-Animal Testing advocate who could care less about whether or not predators eat their natural prey.

  21. Loud Talker says:

    If we’re not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of MEAT?

  22. ISammael says:

    In other news, my leather gloves are lined with rabbit fur. I’m okay with that, because if the cow is going to die to make food, I’d rather the skin were also used and not wasted. And rabbit fur is just soft.

  23. jak says:

    Wow. I hope the rest of the Indexed readers aren’t like this. I’m never reading comments again.

  24. Tom says:

    Shirt form. Now.


  25. Mike says:

    …..Where is the love?

    It’s in the hamburger.

  26. Tarnok says:

    There’s no need for PETA to exist if they were simply there to promote animal welfare. To quote Paul F Thompkins, “People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals; well that certainly sounds like a good idea. We could certainly use a society for the protection of cruelty to animals, an SPCA, if you will. Oh wait: there is one, and it’s called that. What’s the matter? The SPCA not ethical enough?”

    /Fuel for the stove.

  27. Mike says:

    What if all the activist is asking is that the animals be treated *humanely*? A lot of folks (myself included) don’t object to raising and killing cows/pigs for meat & leather, but have you seen the videos of the way animals are clubbed and skinned alive for their fur??! That kind of gross cruelty shouldn’t be acceptable to any civilised human being.

  28. A Different Mike says:

    I once knew a vegan/animal rights activist who wore a leather jacket. We called him Meat Jacket.

  29. Jeandré du Toit says:

    A good, tho disturbing, documentary called Earthlings makes a convincing argument against buying leather, and especially fur, and consuming animals and animal products: don’t cause something that can feel pain to be hurt.

  30. Jessie says:

    How do you know a plant feels no pain? If they are placed in the shade, most will grow towards the light. They do respond to their environment.

    I’m not sure sheep are all that crazy about getting sheared in the spring, they act kind of scared.

    I guess I’ll just have to eat rocks and go naked, which will cause lots of folks visual pain.

  31. Mog says:

    HAW HAW! I, too, can regurgitate pithy wisecracks about people who don’t eat meat!

  32. MomTFH says:

    I stopped an obnoxious in-my-face vegetarian with that once. She said she bought the leather boots and leather jacket she was wearing before she became vegetarian. Riiiiiight.

  33. Atario says:


    This is what is missed by people who think they’re clever for making the argument in the chart. And it’s a far more generalized form of specious argument than people realize: “Well, if you’re so opposed to [societal phenomenon], how come you still [partake of something related]?”. For example, the usual claptrap about how Al Gore shouldn’t be allowed to fly or heat his home and so forth.

    Just because society makes it impossible to get along without participating in the troublesome stuff doesn’t make the troublesome stuff ok, nor does it make the partaker’s argument against it invalid. I bet everyone here would love to be able to use nothing but pure biodiesel in their cars, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to advocate for biodiesel till you abandon everything else.

    In short: don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    In even shorter: grow up, people.

  34. Stephen Maxwell says:

    To me, the vegetarian argument is meaningless until vegetarians can show why
    A) We have less of a right to eat meat than wolves do, and why
    B) A cow has more of a right to not be eaten than a cabbage does.
    It seems to me that, among life, it’s all differences of _degree_, not type. I’m made of the same fundamental stuff as an animal is, and the same fundamental stuff as a plant is.

    I’m against animal _cruelty_, and believe we should be _responsible_ and _ethical_ omnivores, but the “we should all be vegan” argument seems pretty absurd. Especially if it’s proponents eat fake meat made from tofu.

  35. Paper tiger says:

    A lot of vegetarians choose not to eat meat because of the way in which the animals are raised or slaughtered, or the effect the related industry has on the environment. From my experience, the vegetarians I know don’t discredit the notion that humans are supposed to be omnivores; they simply are making a statement about the meat methods. Also, the idea that what they’re eating could – at one time – feel your teeth as they sink into its charred flesh. Imagine is a terrible thing.
    I know many vegetarians who will wear secondhand leather; they won’t support further production, but they’ll use what’s already been produced.

  36. Concerned Marsupial says:

    I’m sick and tired of vegetarian and animal rights activist bashing by people who flatter themselves with being rational and open-minded. First of all, not all vegetarians or animal rights activists equal PETA.

    I haven’t always been a vegetarian, but I’ve always felt that would be a better route to go, and I hope to transition to veganism someday. So I’m not really sure why people are so hostile to vegetarians. I suspect it’s because they get on the defensive since they don’t like the implication that not everyone wants to be gluttonous assholes like they are. Cause, you know, if everyone was okay with slavery, for instance, that would automatically make it okay since no one would have to confront the idea that having someone wipe your ass for you is not worth depriving people of freedom and basic rights.

    Stephen Maxwell, so it’s okay to eat animals because wolves do, right? Do you also think it’s acceptable to rape women because rape is the main method of reproduction among orangutans? Well, as long as it’s “ethical” rape, of course, right?

    And I do have some leather shoes which I did buy before I became a vegetarian. I’m poor, I can’t afford to buy new shoes. And they are not in good enough condition to sell to a thrift shop. Even if I could afford to get rid of them, it’s not like it would convince people like some of the commenters here to stop munching on brutally slaughtered corpses or buy leather couches. And actual rational people are not going to judge ethical principles by ad hominem arguments or jump to self-serving conclusions.

  37. Concerned Marsupial says:

    *stop buying leather couches, that is

  38. Tarnok says:

    @Concerned Marsupial

    Rape is a human construction derived from human emotions, concepts and ideas. Stop trying to project your views onto the animal kingdom, they certainly do not project them back.

  39. Stephen Maxwell says:

    Concerned Marsupial,
    I’m not going to reply to your dumb pretend “implication” of my simple question, until you actually answer it. I’m already against animal cruelty, so I refuse to cede any moral high ground to you. Instead, I’ll respond to _this_ comment:

    “So I’m not really sure why people are so hostile to vegetarians. I suspect it’s because they get on the defensive since they don’t like the implication that not everyone wants to be gluttonous assholes like they are.”

    I get on the defensive because I don’t like the implication that _everyone_ should artificially limit their diet based on _your_ random concept. If you want to stop eating anyt living thing that doesn’t have a cell wall, then that’s okay by me. but if you’re going to act like I’m morally scarred just because I’m an omnivore, then I’m going to defend myself. I’m not a gluttonous asshole, and usually I even show admiration for vegetarians, but vegetarians like _you_ are the ones that make the whole idea look ridiculous.

    [note: sorry, this is another late-night return drunk post, so I’ll admit right now that I’m missing my “don’t post this it’ll just offend people and accomplish nothing” filter. [btw, to the poster called ‘whatever’. thanks! though there’s a time zone difference and it’s only actually 3:20 right now. Sometimes I can’t help posting something before bedtime, as I check the internets on my way though my room.]]

  40. atheist_pending says:

    This same problem happened to me in philosophy class the other day. One group was talking about wether or not animal testing was right or wrong. When we were supposed to give our opinion, I said animal testing is only alright for medical purposes. Cosmetics testing is just wrong. At which point, Malibu Barbie started calling me a hypocrite, because of my boots! Preposterous. I’m not a vegetarian, I just think the torture of loving things, just to make your face pretty, is wrong. So, the differance between my boots and her face? The animal DIED outright for the boots, with minimal suffering, (I hope!) where-as the animals they tested her makeup on probably suffered!

  41. Hunter says:

    I’m from Montana and I let my gun do the talking for my right to eat.

    Bye Bambi

  42. Concerned Marsupial says:

    Stephen Maxwell, you in particular are a gluttonous asshole. Why? Well, your assholiness is self-evident, and you are gluttonous because you could certainly have a healthy diet and even eat gourmet foods without killing anyone, and yet you would rather kill. For the record, I consider myself gluttonous because I’m not a vegan yet. And if you have a diet similar to that of an average American, you are probably eating meat in quantities that are downright unhealthy. Oh, and before you start your diatribes about artificially limiting anything, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the quantities of meat consumed by early humans (hint: it wasn’t much). And it took a while for lactose tolerance to enter the picture, as well.

    I never said I demand that everyone should stop eating meat, let alone be vegan as I’m not vegan. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. I know it’s pretty futile, kind of like demanding that everyone stop breeding. I have no illusion that you people are going to stop doing either, so I don’t. I’m just sick and tired of vegetarian bashing, which is what my post was about, and idiotic comments like the one you made about “fake meat made from tofu” or that wearing fake leather shows cowardice.

    It’s impossible for me to demand a moral high ground from you because I don’t think there is absolute morality, and the concept of rights is pretty meaningless, as well. I was merely inquiring if you prefer to live your life based on the naturalistic fallacy, in which case it wouldn’t really be that surprising if you saw no problem with forcible intercourse, aka rape (note to Tarnok: if you think forcible intercourse does not exist among non-human animals, I have to question what planet you live on).

  43. Stephen Maxwell says:

    You say you’re just sick of antivegitarian attitudes, which sounds as if you’re only being defensive. Yet you define anyone who eats meat as automatically a “gluttonous asshole.” This sounds like you’re trying to impose your own choices on others.

    I have never had a problem with vegetarians. The only time I have a problem is when someone tries to tell me that being an omnivore makes me a bad person. I don’t eat meat often, but when I do it’s not any cause for guilt.

    As long as you’re defining any life killed as murder, answer me this: Why does a cow have more of a right to live than a cabbage does? Should we not kill _anything_?

    Comments like “your assholiness is self-evident” are completely unnecessary. In life, I prioritize being as good and as kind to everyone as I can. I won’t hurt anybody, but I _will_ argue a point of view. I don’t think you’re a bad person just because you disagree with me.

  44. Concerned Marsupial says:

    Okay, let me be as plain as I can: I don’t define everyone who eats meat as assholes, which you would see if you read what I actually wrote. I define people who bash others for being concerned with suffering as assholes. I define people who make stupid comments like “people who eat fake meat while making arguments for veganism are absurd” or “wearing fake leather means they want to wear real leather but are afraid” as assholes. I’m certainly not trying to curtail your freedom of speech, but I have the same right to tell you what my opinion of you is. If you were to mock anti-rape activists or abortion rights advocates because in nature there is no recourse against rape and no artificial abortion services, I would also call you an asshole, but more people would agree with me.
    But since eating meat is so prevalent in our society and most people don’t see a problem with it, it’s you who gets to whine and bitch and construct straw men about your rights being imposed on.

    I don’t eat animals because I try to minimize the amount of suffering and death I contribute to. There is no evidence that plants are capable of suffering, definitely not to the same extent as animals. I would eat animals if there were no other choice since I value my own life more highly, but I have plenty of other options now. I’ve already told you my opinion of the concept of rights, yet you keep repeating the same question. Well, to carry out your question to its logical conclusion, if a cow doesn’t have more of a right to live than a cabbage, then neither does a human. If you agree, you are being consistent, but I would certainly not want to be your neighbor. But I doubt you would since you claim to prioritize being good and kind. So it’s your position that’s absurd. On many levels.

    Not to mention that if any criticism is to be construed as trying to impose your choices on others, your behavior and mockery certainly qualify as attempts to dissuade people from being vegetarian.

  45. atheist_pending says:

    Concerned marsupial,
    You do realize, a 100% vegan individual would be unable to eat anything! Name one natural food item that is not affected directly by an animal. And listen to the arrogant worm’s “Carrot Juice Is Murder.”

  46. Jeandré du Toit says:

    Jessie, good question. I don’t know for sure that plants feel no pain, but since they don’t have nervous systems it seems highly unlikely that they do. The burden of evidence is an interesting question tho.

    If plants do feel pain, it would still seem to be the lesser evil to eat them than to cause needless pain to something that does have a nervous system; in the same way it would be worse to kill a human in a non-vegetative state than a cow because the human can have more complex future expectations than the cow.

    I don’t see how tropism is connected to suffering.

  47. allqsallthetime says:

    “You do realize, a 100% vegan individual would be unable to eat anything!”

    you’re right! if you can’t do something 100%, then why even bother. take this year’s election for instance — i had no chance of becoming president, so i didn’t bother to vote.

    it’s all-or-nothing attitudes like this that *really* drive progress.

  48. Ernie says:

    Hmm, how to vote on isitfunnytoday.com.. The comic itself, not so funny, but the comments, pretty damn funny!

  49. atheist_pending says:

    I’m simply pointing out that a vegan status is impossible to obtain. The most anyone can call themselves is an extreme vegetarian. The way I see it, any who does what they can to what they do eat local and organic is doing a better job than most vegetarians.

  50. atheist_pending says:

    Woah! Me no speak English good! To rephrase, “Anyone who does what they can to shop local and organic is doing more than the average vegetarian for the betterment of the treatment of the creatures and plants we consume and use from day to day.”

  51. Concerned Marsupial says:

    atheist_pending, allqsallthetimeo answered you very well. Are you suggesting no one can be a democrat unless they are in favor of mobocracy? What was your point, anyway?

    And now you switch to offering a false dichotomy of either “vegetarian” or “local and organic”. One can do both, you know.

    You rationalizations are looking pretty weak.

  52. ThesaurusRex says:

    Wow, this is just like the bashing that goes on at the CraigsList rants ‘n’ raves board…

    …except that here the vocabulary and spelling are way better.

  53. cmrtroi says:


    Re your quote of Paul F. Thompkins:

    I’m not sure if it’s a misquote or the guy is nuts, but SPCA = Society for the *Prevention* of Cruelty to Animals, not Society for the *Protection* of Cruelty to Animals.
    What a difference a word makes.

    On a lighter note, I used to watch Star Trek: TNG on G4 where the audience could comment to a scroll onscreen, and one day the following appeared:
    ‘I once put bacon on my soy burger, and the universe folded in on itself.’

  54. ck says:

    I think what we’ve really identified here is a need for non-leather shoes. This is a market that is not being served and with a product that could thrive in the current economy! (Now if only I knew how to make shoes…)

  55. Hodge says:

    I’m not really sympathetic to the strong version of the argument of animal rights activists. Luckily they tend to take my leather jacket as a sign that I’m a lost cause.

    On the other hand, I see most people whose reaction to animal rights is the knee-jerk sort found in this tread as simply intellectually lazy. If you can’t engage with the question of what rights are due to an animal, as distinct from humans, you refuse the entire question of the basis of the rights we ourselves feel we should enjoy, and therefor also their nature.

    Or put shortly, everyone but me sucks and I have a cool leather jacket. Suck it punks!

  56. Eatonomy says:

    As a response to some of the comments I’ve read:

    Please remember that many vegetarians choose not to eat meat for environmental and economic reasons, not exclusively due to a belief in animal rights.

    In the case of environmental and/or economic vegetarianism, the argument shifts from an abstract philosophical discussion of “human or animal rights” to a very tangible questions of efficiency, distribution and the growing burden on natural resources.

    Many environmental vegetarians do not universally condemn eating meat, but simply encourage consuming less of it. A modest reduction in meat consumption across the industrialized world would significantly lessen the burden on our planet.

  57. fjaradvax says:

    “Just because society makes it impossible to get along without participating in the troublesome stuff doesn’t make the troublesome stuff ok, nor does it make the partaker’s argument against it invalid.” –
    Bloody well said. Taking a copy and preparing to quote extensively, hope that’s OK.

  58. Pingback: Animal rights activists and credibility « From My Heart, Out Of My Mind

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  60. Syn says:

    Actually, non leather shoes aren’t hard to find. I currently have well over 10 pairs of vegan shoes. They all look nice and are well made too.

    Yup, I’m vegan. Yes, I’m vegan for animal rights reasons, though by day I don’t shove it down anyone’s throat when they do non-vegan things, nor do I do anything that compromises my own beliefs.

    I do believe that animal rights activists who wear leather shoes have zero credibility. Same with vegans who don’t look at their ethics towards human rights right along with animal rights.

    Have morals is fuckin’ hard, it means actually having a brain and thinking through your actions and being a considerate human being!

    Though I like to think that by living by my ethics, and I mean all my ethics, and being open about it! People may stop and think that it’s an ok way to be.

  61. stev says:

    ‘call yourself an environmentalist, what about beavers? they cut millions of trees each year’

    -arrested development

  62. pinto says:

    Man, veggies must really be touching a cord. Go after somebody’s hamburger, and they get *CRANKY*. Chill out kids, the bad, mean veggies aren’t going to take your artery cloggers. No need to bend over backwards to piss off a small subculture that wishes little more than for the world to be a less brutal place.

    You want a burger to piss them off? I want to donate to PETA (and, believe me, I’m no fan) just to piss YOU assholes off.

  63. lets get some shoes says:

    Vegan shoes are not hard to find. Just google “vegan shoes”. Kinda pricey, but you might find a good deal if you look hard enough.

  64. wyssaway says:

    I have been a vegetarian for 5 years now, and a vegan for only 2 months. The transition was surprisingly easy. The reason I am posting is to make a few general comments based on what I have read.

    -I am confused by some of the posts that say a true vegan cannot eat “anything.” Vegans do not eat animal products (i.e. meat, cheese, milk, honey, gelatin, etc). Being a vegan does not mean that we eat no living thing. We eat living plants. Those who choose to be vegan for animal rights reasons are attempting to reduce pain and suffering in innocent creatures. There has been no scientific evidence that even slightly suggests that a plant can feel pain or suffereing, whereas the evidence that animals (including fish) can is overwhelming.

    -I think that it is quite contradictory for someone to call him/herself a vegan and still where animal fur or leather. One troublesome thing I have read in these posts is that people think the leather they are wearing comes from cattle that are being slaughtered for food. This is actually not usually the case. Many cattle are raised specifically for the leather industry, and “India Cattle” are bought from small farms in India and driven hundreds of miles (under very harsh conditions) simply to be slaughtered for the leather industry. Please try to get facts straight before you put the dead skin on your body.

    -Lastly, I have found that in my own personal experience those persons who judge and bash vegetarians are usually on the defensive because they are intimidated. (Im not saying that this applies to everyone, but it applies to many.) You see, nobody likes to have their flaws, moral or otherwise, pointed out to them. Simply seeing someone living a different, kinder, more healthy life style makes some people realize that they are not living their life in the best way possible. They try to lash out in an attempt to justify their actions and comfort themselves. So, really, sometimes all that bashing should just be taken as a compliment. Vegans/Vegetarians, keep living a caring life, the way anyone who claims to care for human rights, animal rights, or the environment should live! :)

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  66. Animals have no God says:

    Before civilization came about, we ate whatever the f_ck we wanted and NOBODY said anything. Why? Cuz that’s what we are built to do. Eat things – ambulatory things or otherwise. We are animals, just like wolves. We eat what we catch. It’s how we are designed. To ignore that is to ignore reality. It also means you are a moron.

    Vegetarians = Unnatural, but who cares. Enjoy your salad, pale skin and host of medical problems due to lack of nutrition.

    Omnivores = Great success. Enjoy your yummy meat-based diet and the host of medical problems due to too much yummy meat-based items. At least we get to enjoy our full bellies before we succumb.

    Let’s think of it this way, if we didn’t have to hunt for food, we wouldn’t be the smartypantses with big brains that we are today.

    How many grazers evolved into tool users?

    Uh…. None.

    Takes intelligence to hunt moving food. Not so much grass and cabbages.

    You’re all freaks. So am I.

  67. Animals have no God says:

    I guess I’m a vegan, too.

    I eat nothing but plants… but only after they’ve been processed and incorporated by, for and into yummy moo cows, chickens, piggies and lamb.

    Anyone who eats fish is a freak.

  68. Nick says:

    Why does it equal phi? I don’t follow.